The Daily Kos does not appear to be a champion of free speech.
Last week Daily Kos removed a post criticizing the site for its anti-Mormon bigotry.
Now it is rallying its followers to target Mormons who have donated to the Proposition 8 campaign. Once identified, the plan is to dig into their backgrounds, with the hopes of harassing and discrediting their efforts.
As a matter of fact, the No on Prop 8 folks told me recently that the “Protect Marriage” campaign has raised $30 million dollars–over half of it from the Mormon Church. Now, I have nothing personally against the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. They most certainly have the constitutional right to worship in their own way. They have the right to minister in whatever way they see fit and to marry whomever they see fit in their churches based on any qualifications they choose. And they will be well within their rights.
But when the church and its members invest millions of dollars in an attempt to write discrimination into my state’s constitution and divorce my friend Brian against his will, there will be hell to pay.
So what am I asking you to do?
Some distributed research.
There is a list of a bunch of Mormon donors to the Yes on Proposition 8 campaign (in case that one goes down, here’s a mirror with slightly worse formatting.
Here’s what I’m asking for:
This list contains information about those who are big donors to the Yes on 8 campaign–donors to the tune of at least $1,000 dollars. And, as you can see, there are a lot of them. It also indicates if they’re Mormon or not.
If you’re interested in defeating the religious right and preserving marriage equality, here’s how you can help:
Find us some ammo.
Use any LEGAL tool at your disposal. Use OpenSecrets to see if these donors have contributed to…shall we say…less than honorable causes, or if any one of these big donors has done something otherwise egregious. If so, we have a legitimate case to make the Yes on 8 campaign return their contributions, or face a bunch of negative publicity . . .
Feel free to use Lexis-Nexis searches as well for anything useful, especially given that these people are using “morality” as their primary motivation to support Prop 8…if you find anything that belies that in any way…well, you know what to do . . .
Here’s the bottom line for me: if someone is willing to contribute thousands of dollars to a campaign to take away legal rights from some very dear friends of mine, they had damn well make sure their lives are beyond scrutiny–because I, for one, won’t take it lying down.
Unfortunately, the media has played along with this emphasis by making Mormon donations to support Proposition 8 a major issue (never mind the millions big celebrities and others have given to opppose it).
I thought it was odd that the Associated Press included a link in this story to a site called Mormons for Proposition 8, which at first blush would appear to be a pro-Mormon site in the church’s efforts to preserve traditional marriage. However, it’s a ruse to “out” all Mormon donors and its purported benign motives have been betrayed by the Daily Kos.
Forget debating on the merits. When your personal politics is on the line, “by any means necessary” is an acceptable tactic. Personally attacking people and making their lives miserable is acceptable collateral damage in the pursuit of your idea of “fairness.”
P.S. Besides this coordinated harassment campaign, here’s an isolated but a very disturbing incident of violence against a Prop 8 supporter.
P.P.S. How are donors being identified as Mormon?
[via The Corner]
(Possibly) Related posts:
Tags: anti-mormons, civility, religious freedom, same-gender marriage
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Pingback from Tolerance II « Messenger and Advocate on 21 October 2008 at 12:16 pm
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Umm…Wow. Nothing more to say there, David. Thanks for the link.
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wow. this is weird.
http://prop8discussion.wordpress.com/2008/10/20/separate-but-equal/
yes on prop 8
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P.P.S. How are donors being identified as Mormon?
It appears Nadine Hansen, who runs Mormonsfor8.com (and was speaking in favor of gay rights at this year’s Sunstone symposium), is soliciting e-mails from church members to review her spreadsheet and identify ward members on the list.
Apparently, it’s fine to rat out your fellow church members as long as you’re only exposing them to verbal or physical abuse from non-members (as opposed to–ulp–subjecting them to ecclesiastical or BYU academic discipline).
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How are donors being identified as Mormon?
We email the site administrator and inform the site of people who contribute who are known members of the LDS church. How do we know this? In my case, I recognize names…either through personal knowledge or the stake directory.
We are simply cross-referencing public records with our own knowledge of known LDS contributors.
And apparently, there are quite a few of us.
Information is power – share it!
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Bizarre. I can understand the urge, though–if your opponent is basing their argument on X (morality, in this case), then you look to discredit them by showing their opposition elsewhere to X.
Basically, we’re in an era in USmerican politics where any hint of “flip-flopper” is grounds for attack. I find this to be a Bad Development, largely because it creates disincentives for nuance, but it’s become the easy route for all extremes in political discourse.
No idea what to do to stop it, though.
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JimD –
Can you corroborate that it is indeed that sister who runs the site? When I first noticed the website a few weeks ago, I tried to find out who registered the domain but of course it was conveniently anonymous.
Phouchg –
Thank you for the explanation. Can you further explain why it is useful to single out Mormon donors and identify them as such?
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>Can you further explain why it is useful to single out Mormon donors and identify them as such?
Curiosity. Statistical information. Proving a hypothesis. These are the reasons I can think of.
Besides, if contributors are on “the Lord’s side”, they should not be ashamed that there is public knowledge of their contribution. They knew going in that their contributions would be a matter of public record.
However, I do not condone anybody using this information for anything that would be illegal. That is seriously messed up. We may disagree, but everybody certainly has the right to contribute to any cause they wish.
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It seems to me rather desperate tactics to be digging into someone’s past just because of a donation. It also seems silly to allow these judges so much power that they can disrupt society so easily. I’m glad the Church got involved in this proposition, it was the right thing to do.
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Exactly they type of thing I expect from the Daily Kossack.
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@ Phouchg
The KOs called for only LEGAL methods. Hopefully that recommendation is followed.
I have had several people ask me today what the worst case scenario of this is, and I’ve felt that, in reality, there isn’t much to be concerned about in terms of outcomes–it’s simply the mentality that is frightening to me.
@ all
Any word on whether it actually is NH running the site?
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It would be nice to confirm who is running Mormonsfor8.com.
It only seems fair to know who they are and what their true agenda is. The site has played a significant role in shaping the debate as covered by the AP and other media. And now, intentionally or not, the site is being used for less than noble purposes.
If anyone has any information please post it here or contact me via email at the top of the page.
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Here is the info per his website. The blogger goes by “hekobolos”
Website: http://www.hekebolos.com
Email: [editorially snipped, you can find it elsewhere of you must]Dante Atkins
CA DSCC elected delegate, AD-42
Member, CDP Platform Committee
Vice-President, Los Angeles County Young Democrats
I think he must be a small man with a big chip on his shoulder!
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In light of what “trolls” can do to people, I would advise extreme caution when donating to causes under circumstances in which the identity of the donor and the amount of the donation are made a matter of public record.
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Several news stories have reported that Nadine Hansen created the site.
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Thanks anon.
It’s interesting that it has been openly reported but she’s so secretive on her site.
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LOL I think that you are getting nasty here. People have a right to worship and donate to whatever cause they want. You don’t see any MORMONS going around saying dig into the background of so and so and coming up with dirt.
Why don’t you go out and fight for your cause with good intelligent debate instead of this kind of back stabbing garbage. I would be willing to listen to you, if you actually were not a garbage digging machine.
lol – good luck with your cause.
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3 thoughts:
1. Rick: “It also seems silly to allow these judges so much power that they can disrupt society so easily.” Actually, reading the Federalist Papers convinced me that that (disrupting society) is one of the main purposes of the judiciary. Also, once again it matters whose ox is gored, doesn’t it–the definition of a “judicial activist”, after all, is “a judge who rules differently than *i* would have”.
2. A MORMON: “You don’t see any MORMONS going around saying dig into the background of so and so and coming up with dirt.” Maybe not in this case–i’m over on the other side of the country, so i don’t have easy access to all the details–but Mormons have been on the wrong side of some political fights like this.
3. I like the end of Dave Sundwall’s title for the followup post to this: “…and a Deep Breath”. Calm down, folks. No matter what happens with Proposition 8 (or, for that matter, any other political fight), and no matter what people on any side of any political issue might do about it, life will go on. A little stepping back and deep breathing is in order for *everyone* here, i say.
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Yes; as Anon said, several news stories confirm that Hansen is behind it. See, e.g., the Salt Lake Tribune (article has been taken down, but is available via Google Cache at http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:Ofj1Z_pXWpcJ:www.sltrib.com/News/ci_10489514+nadine+hansen+mormonsfor8+tribune&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us )
Hansen touched on Prop 8 at this year’s Sunstone convention–see the video at http://ldshomosexuality.com/?p=166.
Before this year, her primary claim to fame was an article in the Winter 1981 issue of Dialogue advocating priesthood for women. See http://content.lib.utah.edu/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/dialogue&CISOPTR=2704&REC=14, article beginning on page 58.
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Correction: The Dialogue article begins on page 48, not 58.
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The author of that Daily Kos diary is 15.
As in … fifteen years old.
Good to see y’all are givin’ him a much-deserved goin’ over.
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Chino -
What’s your point? I don’t think anyone has said anything about the poster.
The issue is what they are trying to do. Kos and it’s readers seem to think it’s a good idea. The post is still there unlike a mild piece last week that complained of the site’s anti-Mormon bigotry.
Besides, how do you know that? Another blog I saw ID’d him as an adult Obama activist in LA. I’ll try to find the link tonight.
Either way, it doesn’t make a difference that DK and some Mormons (such as yourself) think it’s a good tactic to single-out LDS supporters of Prop 8.
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Hmm. My last comment refers to a comment that, apparently, is still in moderation.
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JimD -
Sorry about that. Your comment and Ann’s were put in moderation b/c of the links and I didn’t catch that.
So now it appears that someone did bring up the Kos poster before Chino did but in reality, Ann’s comment wasn’t published until now.
Still, it sure doesn’t seem like he’s 15.
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No problem, David. I just figured I deserved to be in moderation, given the strident tone of my initial post here.
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Before you work yourself into too much of a lather over the DK post that was taken down …
Pls note that it was the author himself who took down the post, not DK.
You can read all about it here:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/10/14/2522/4624
I guess the author finally got a clue about this offensive sentence in his diary:
“I personally don’t like someone who has homosexual tendencies claiming that he or she is somehow normal.”
Bigot (the poster, not you).
Anyway, what’s my point, David? What’s my point?
My point is that you and 95% of your co-religionists are out-of-bounds and out-of-control on this one. You’ve lost you’re bleeding senses.
Re your other question, how do I know that about the poster? I don’t. I’m just making stuff up. It’s a lot easier than trying to get one’s facts straight, isn’t it?
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Hey everyone, that post on Daily Kos that got deleted was my post. I deleted it. I felt the feelings were too raw and we couldn’t have a sensible debate about it, so I deleted the post after 450 or so comments.
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Thanks for the clarification Dan.
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Well, well, well. It turns out some of the people involved in the Prop. 8 fight have, in fact, been doing their darndest to blackmail their opponents. However, it’s the “YES ON 8? people. And they admit it.
http://www.cbs8.com/stories/story.144185.html
Here’s some quotes:
“(A letter sent to a real estate company that donated to No on 8 said ) if Jim doesn’t give an equal donation to Yes on 8, the name of his company will be published. It reads in part, “It is only fair for Proposition 8 supporters to know which companies and organizations oppose traditional marriage.“I feel like it’s blackmail, and as you can imagine, real estate business has been tough lately and to have someone come at you like this… it’s very distressing,” he said.
Yes on 8 confirms they sent around 30 companies the letter. A spokeswoman told News 8 they are just trying to hold their ground in a passionate race. She added that No on 8 supporters picketed the Manchester Grand Hyatt after Doug Manchester donated $125,000 thousand. The publicity caused at least one very large group to cancel its event at the hotel.
She also pointed to a popular blog that asked readers to dig up dirt on Yes on 8 supporters, see if they’ve contributed to less than honorable causes, or have done something otherwise egregious, with the hope they can force the Yes on 8 campaign to return their contributions, or face a bunch of negative publicity.
But News 8 couldn’t find anything from No on 8 supporters demanding money from Yes on 8 supporters.
As for Jim, he stands behind his donation, and will not be making a similar one to Yes on 8.”
Got that? Actual blackmail from Yes on 8 supporters. No blackmail at all from No on 8 supporters.
The letter was signed by four members of the group’s executive committee: campaign chairman Ron Prentice; Edward Dolejsi, executive director of the California Catholic Conference; Mark Jansson, a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints; and Andrew Pugno, a lawyer for ProtectMarriage.com.”
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081023/ap_on_el_st_lo/gay_marriage_1
I somehow suspect this will fall out as negative publicity.
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I don’t attack your church for doing something. It is one of the fundamentals of life that marriage is between a man and a woman; gays can’t even have children. If you even believe in God and the Bible, it states that unnatural marriage is wrong, the unnatural part being homosexuality. Now I know everyone is entitle to their own opinion, another basic ideal of my church, so you can have yours, but don’t persecute me for mine. Our church has already had enough persecution for absolutely no reason
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God also hates shrimp, mixing cotton with linen, and thinks it’s just peachy to kill your children for misbehavior. That last one shows up twice. So God is roughly as pro fillicide as he is anti-homosexual, if the Bible is your last word on the subject. And don’t forget Johnathan and David. David loved Jonathan. And as soon as the lad was gone, David arose out of a place toward the south, and fell on his face to the ground, and bowed himself three times: and they kissed one another, and wept one with another, until David exceeded. Samuel 20:41; I don’t think God’s as homophobic as you think.
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to djinn:
talk about someone who doesn’t understand the scriptures nor the culture of the people referred to in it. please learn about the customs of the ancients before you make an ignorant statement that totally misrepresents the facts. you don’t exactly sound like a God-loving man or a disciple.
devon
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to djinn:
or woman, sorry!
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It’s quite possible that I’m wrong, I’d be interested to hear your exegesis
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