Comments on: Why Apologize for the Zion Curtain? http://asoftanswer.com/2009/03/11/why-apologize-for-the-zion-curtain/ an unseemly mix of politics and Mormonism Thu, 11 Mar 2010 22:25:07 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: normal http://asoftanswer.com/2009/03/11/why-apologize-for-the-zion-curtain/comment-page-1/#comment-6759 normal Thu, 14 May 2009 21:28:08 +0000 http://www.asoftanswer.com/?p=2815#comment-6759 Your comparison appears to be that Utah is 95% restrictive whereas other places are 5% restrictive. Nobody is saying that anywhere should be 100% unrestricted in terms of booze sales, but your comparisons are silly. Blue laws are typically looser than Utah's laws, but are no less practical. Forcing Christian morality is the same as LDS morality. Separate church and state! Your comparison appears to be that Utah is 95% restrictive whereas other places are 5% restrictive.

Nobody is saying that anywhere should be 100% unrestricted in terms of booze sales, but your comparisons are silly.

Blue laws are typically looser than Utah’s laws, but are no less practical. Forcing Christian morality is the same as LDS morality.

Separate church and state!

]]> By: Dawn http://asoftanswer.com/2009/03/11/why-apologize-for-the-zion-curtain/comment-page-1/#comment-6702 Dawn Tue, 14 Apr 2009 02:50:29 +0000 http://www.asoftanswer.com/?p=2815#comment-6702 I own a club in Boise and I can tell you that most of us here think the ideological hair splitting in Utah is hilarious. The Zion Curtain is being replaced with simple ID scanners that fall way short of the law's intended goal. I've used simple scanners and they're useless for long-term deterrence of underage drinking because fake IDs are so easy to get. It's far better to join an organization of venues that works together to share information in a responsible way like the "Club Watch Community Connection" (google it). It's basically a neighborhood watch for bars and clubs that already prevents underage drinking and violence at 1,000s of clubs. I don't know why Utah is trying to re-create the wheel when all the venues need to do is participate in Club Watch and be done with it. Instead, your governor and legislature have gone from trying to turn Utah into a police state (original proposal was to connect all clubs to police databases!) to now relying on simple scanners that are nothing more than glorified paperweights. Wake up Utah and let the clubs regulate themselves! If you really want to "modernize" your drinking culture and tourism then get serious about joining the thousands of other clubs, bars and venues that are already gettin 'er done! I own a club in Boise and I can tell you that most of us here think the ideological hair splitting in Utah is hilarious. The Zion Curtain is being replaced with simple ID scanners that fall way short of the law’s intended goal. I’ve used simple scanners and they’re useless for long-term deterrence of underage drinking because fake IDs are so easy to get.

It’s far better to join an organization of venues that works together to share information in a responsible way like the “Club Watch Community Connection” (google it). It’s basically a neighborhood watch for bars and clubs that already prevents underage drinking and violence at 1,000s of clubs. I don’t know why Utah is trying to re-create the wheel when all the venues need to do is participate in Club Watch and be done with it.

Instead, your governor and legislature have gone from trying to turn Utah into a police state (original proposal was to connect all clubs to police databases!) to now relying on simple scanners that are nothing more than glorified paperweights. Wake up Utah and let the clubs regulate themselves! If you really want to “modernize” your drinking culture and tourism then get serious about joining the thousands of other clubs, bars and venues that are already gettin ‘er done!

]]> By: David H. Sundwall http://asoftanswer.com/2009/03/11/why-apologize-for-the-zion-curtain/comment-page-1/#comment-6509 David H. Sundwall Fri, 13 Mar 2009 18:12:16 +0000 http://www.asoftanswer.com/?p=2815#comment-6509 Just another thought, if I may allow myself to share it: At no point in these discussions, such as in the above MSNBC video, is there are any acknowledgment that alcohol is a serious health and safety concern. Yes adults, should have the freedom to behave responsibly but there needs to be a serious discussion that alcohol is a serious problem. But glib and condescending chit-chat undermines serious attempts to find a proper balance. Strangely he didn't mention that Utah has one of the best records when it comes to DUI fatalities (this page seems to show that <a href="http://www.alcoholalert.com/drunk-driving-statistics.html" rel="nofollow">Utahns have the lowest rate alcohol-related deaths</a> which suggest that we find plenty of other ways to die ;-) ) . And if Rocky's so concerned about Utah's record on drinking at least give it credit for the dubious distinction as the state which voted to overthrow Prohibition. Just another thought, if I may allow myself to share it:

At no point in these discussions, such as in the above MSNBC video, is there are any acknowledgment that alcohol is a serious health and safety concern. Yes adults, should have the freedom to behave responsibly but there needs to be a serious discussion that alcohol is a serious problem. But glib and condescending chit-chat undermines serious attempts to find a proper balance.

Strangely he didn’t mention that Utah has one of the best records when it comes to DUI fatalities (this page seems to show that Utahns have the lowest rate alcohol-related deaths which suggest that we find plenty of other ways to die ;-) ) . And if Rocky’s so concerned about Utah’s record on drinking at least give it credit for the dubious distinction as the state which voted to overthrow Prohibition.

]]> By: David H. Sundwall http://asoftanswer.com/2009/03/11/why-apologize-for-the-zion-curtain/comment-page-1/#comment-6503 David H. Sundwall Fri, 13 Mar 2009 15:07:34 +0000 http://www.asoftanswer.com/?p=2815#comment-6503 Chris H. Wow. Thank you very much. And I feel for your Diet Coke. I'm allowed to drink it but there have been moves put into play to create our own Zion Curtain. Chris H.

Wow. Thank you very much.

And I feel for your Diet Coke. I’m allowed to drink it but there have been moves put into play to create our own Zion Curtain.

]]> By: Chris H. http://asoftanswer.com/2009/03/11/why-apologize-for-the-zion-curtain/comment-page-1/#comment-6502 Chris H. Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:29:03 +0000 http://www.asoftanswer.com/?p=2815#comment-6502 David, I agree with you completely (see, there can be bi-partisan consensus).. I wish that my wife would "normalize" or liberalize her restrictions on Diet Coke. David,

I agree with you completely (see, there can be bi-partisan consensus)..

I wish that my wife would “normalize” or liberalize her restrictions on Diet Coke.

]]> By: David H. Sundwall http://asoftanswer.com/2009/03/11/why-apologize-for-the-zion-curtain/comment-page-1/#comment-6494 David H. Sundwall Thu, 12 Mar 2009 22:27:03 +0000 http://www.asoftanswer.com/?p=2815#comment-6494 Case in point: here is former Mayor Rocky Anderson quick to "explain" Utah to the rest of the country. <div><iframe height="339" width="425" src="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22425001/vp/29625383#29625383" frameborder="0" scrolling="no"></iframe><style type="text/css">.msnbcLinks {font-size:11px; font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; color: #999; margin-top: 5px; background: transparent; text-align: center; width: 425px;} .msnbcLinks a {text-decoration:none !important; border-bottom: 1px dotted #999 !important; font-weight:normal !important; height: 13px;} .msnbcLinks a:link, .msnbcLinks a:visited {color: #5799db !important;} .msnbcLinks a:hover, .msnbcLinks a:active {color:#CC0000 !important;} </style><p class="msnbcLinks">Visit msnbc.com for <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com" rel="nofollow">Breaking News</a>, <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032507" rel="nofollow">World News</a>, and <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032072" rel="nofollow">News about the Economy</a></p></div> Case in point: here is former Mayor Rocky Anderson quick to “explain” Utah to the rest of the country.


Visit msnbc.com for Breaking News, World News, and News about the Economy

]]> By: David H. Sundwall http://asoftanswer.com/2009/03/11/why-apologize-for-the-zion-curtain/comment-page-1/#comment-6492 David H. Sundwall Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:15:18 +0000 http://www.asoftanswer.com/?p=2815#comment-6492 Good point John. People may quibble about Utah's alcohol policy but it's hardly strange or different in comparison to other states. Good point John.

People may quibble about Utah’s alcohol policy but it’s hardly strange or different in comparison to other states.

]]> By: John Mansfield http://asoftanswer.com/2009/03/11/why-apologize-for-the-zion-curtain/comment-page-1/#comment-6491 John Mansfield Thu, 12 Mar 2009 16:08:34 +0000 http://www.asoftanswer.com/?p=2815#comment-6491 In your Wikipedia. list, take a close look at Pennsylvania. Somewhat like Utah, including state liquor stores for the sale of distilled spirits. In your Wikipedia. list, take a close look at Pennsylvania. Somewhat like Utah, including state liquor stores for the sale of distilled spirits.

]]> By: Velska http://asoftanswer.com/2009/03/11/why-apologize-for-the-zion-curtain/comment-page-1/#comment-6489 Velska Thu, 12 Mar 2009 08:17:00 +0000 http://www.asoftanswer.com/?p=2815#comment-6489 Trouble seems to be, it's like holding on to a little boy by his suspenders (I know, this is anachronistic - nobody uses them any longer). He'll lean against them with all his weight, and if you let go he'll fall flat on his face. It is a fitting analogy, IMO, to a lot of control issues. Trouble seems to be, it’s like holding on to a little boy by his suspenders (I know, this is anachronistic – nobody uses them any longer). He’ll lean against them with all his weight, and if you let go he’ll fall flat on his face.

It is a fitting analogy, IMO, to a lot of control issues.

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